通过科学和讲故事消除神话with Kristen Lear, the “Bat Lady”

“讲故事回到我们如何做事,为什么我们说的事情,以及我们如何为我们正在谈论的人说。”Kristen Lear,蝙蝠保护主义和教育家


我们与Kristen Lear,蝙蝠保护主义者和教育工作者交谈,他们工作国家地理探险家和AAAS如果/那么大使。她还serves as an Endangered Species Interventions Specialist at Bat Conservation International, where she leads BCI’s Agave Restoration Initiative for pollinating bats in the US Southwest and Mexico, and she is also passionate about promoting women and girls in STEM. Kristen discusses how science and story can combine to dispel myths and really grab people’s imaginations and passions. Kristen knows that everyone has a bat story, whether positive or negative, and she loves to touch on that to build a personal story from her scientific studies as “the bat lady.” Learn more in our latest episode about how to spark people’s imaginations and passions with a good story.


通过科学和讲故事消除神话with Kristen Lear, the “Bat Lady”

Kristen Lear.is a bat conservationist who seeks to develop practical, equitable, and meaningful solutions to bat conservation challenges through collaborative research, community partnerships, and public engagement and outreach. Her undergraduate research focused on species preferences for bat house design. She is also passionate about outreach and environmental education to increase science literacy among the general public, as well as mentoring younger students to support the next generation of scientists.



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Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:00:04]欢迎来到创新的不陈述故事,在那里我们扩大了洞察力,影响和创新的解开故事。由未结块内容提供支持。乐动体育足球我是你的主人,Katie Trauth Taylor。我们今天的客人是克里斯汀李尔。她是一个保护主义者和教育家;她也是一个国家地理探险家。并是诺布斯保护网络的大使和NSF研究员和创始成员。克里斯汀,我很感激你今天在播客上。

Kristen Lear.谢谢你让我。

Katie Trauth Taylor.所以我认为我们应该首先谈谈房间里的大象,这就是我们在这么奇怪的时刻以及在全球流行病中,由于Covid-19和故事,Covid周围的一部分是它的故事从蝙蝠出现的那种。你是一个蝙蝠保护主义者和教育家。我很幸运地了解你几年了,因为您真正的成长并加速了您在蝙蝠研究方面的研究兴趣。我很想知道,就像,现在你对世界的观点是什么?

Kristen Lear.[00:01:10]Yeah, it’s definitely a crazy place right now. I’m working from home, finishing up my PhD, and it’s definitely been a lot of change, especially in the bat world. Like you said with covid, there’s been a lot of talk about bats and covid, but the research is actually ongoing and there’s a lot of research going into where the sars-cov-2 virus came from. And we actually don’t know right now where it came from. There’s really no evidence to show that it was directly transmitted from a bat to a person. So there’s a lot of speculation going on. But there right now is no evidence that it came directly from a bat. And yeah, it’s really interesting, I think, because bats have such a bad rap in general. A lot of people fear bats. A lot of people misunderstand them. It’s really easy to jump to the conclusion that because some bats, just a couple of species that we’ve found so far, have a related virus, that means that it came from them. But that’s not true, at least from what we know right now. And so it’s really important that we don’t kind of jump to those conclusions without this evidence to back that up. And that’s a big struggle right now in the bat conservation world trying to alleviate those fears that people have.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:02:31]是的,当然。嗯,我想,你知道,其他e are so many different fears that emerge in the midst of a pandemic. And from those fears come deeper societal, systemic problems. Honestly, we see issues with Black Americans being more impacted, negatively impacted by the virus. We see persons with intellectual disabilities or with autism getting covid at a higher rate. And we also saw in the early days, especially, I think, a lot of racism against Asian-Americans or Chinese Americans or the Chinese in general, because that’s where the virus originated. And in some ways, I know we’re diving in in the first two minutes of this podcast to some serious issues, but it reminds me of some of my old graduate school research around folklore and how the legends that we kind of share and storytelling around can actually be the things that reveal some of our greatest values and some of our darkest challenges, too.

Kristen Lear.[00:03:32]绝对地。我觉得你在那里击中了钉子的故事。你知道,人们在任何事物中形成这些意见并没有真正需要太多,而不仅仅是蝙蝠,而且你越讲述了一个故事,你听到蝙蝠在你的头发中飞翔的事情就越多。他们会攻击你。你听到的越多,即使这不是真的,它也是为了在你的脑海中加强这种形象。例如,如果你没有任何其他经验,那么你就谈论了蝙蝠,你真的没有什么可以抵消那个叙事。我认为这是我们所做的一大部分,因为蝙蝠保护主义者试图抵消这些叙述,并将积极的面对蝙蝠实际上为我们做些什么以及他们对环境的重要性程度。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:04:21]我喜欢那个。所以告诉我,当你第一次意识到你对蝙蝠保护的热爱时。

Kristen Lear.[00:04:28]是的,实际上,我真的很年轻。我一直被吸引到弱者。我一直扎根于球队。我记得当我还是个孩子,我们正在看足球,我总是请问谁是最不受欢迎的团队演奏?我总是为他们扎根,因为我希望失败者赢得胜利。而且我有点带到了我对蝙蝠的热爱,因为这真的,啊,一个弱者。他们是。很多人都不知道他们。很多人都害怕他们,就像我说的那样,因为这些故事我们告诉他们和那种叙事形式。所以成长,我只是对他们着迷。 Also, I loved things like spiders and snakes and those other creepy crawlies that a lot of people don’t like. I was just drawn to them. And so when I was young, I was a Girl Scout growing up, I still am, but we would take night hikes during summer camp and that’s when I actually got to see the bats flying around at night and just became obsessed with learning more about them. And that’s when I decided in sixth grade to build bat houses for my Girl Scout silver project. And that was kind of my first experience actually doing that conservation even at that young age. And since then, it’s been a lifelong passion.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:05:49]你是如何服用早期激情的,并将其变成最终成为一个国家地理探险家和所有这些令人难以置信的奖学金以及您在后期职业生涯中进行的研究?

Kristen Lear.[00:06:05]I’ve just had a lot of great opportunities to explore my interests. When I was in college in my second summer, I was looking for an internship or some sort of job for the summer to learn more about wildlife research. And there was a posting for a PhD student field assistant position in Texas working with that. And that was like, oh, that sounds really cool. And that was kind of hearkening back to my desire to learn about that. And luckily I got that position and that was what really did it for me. We would spend nights just up all night chasing bats around these pecan orchards, trying to study how the bats are eating the pecan nut case. Birma, which basically is a really bad pest of countries and that for me really sealed the deal. It was like a dream come true.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:07:00]我喜欢那个。所以这真的是你在学习的确定是什么?所以这听起来像饮食习惯的形式。我们现在在学习什么?

Kristen Lear.[00:07:10]哦,有这么多。因此,这是关于该研究的伟大事物之一,是您可以了解这么多的不同子场。所以现在我正在工作。我正在完成我的博士学位,保护墨西哥花蜜喂养蝙蝠。这些都是濒危蝙蝠授粉龙舌兰植物,我们用来制作龙舌兰酒。因此,我基本上研究了如何与墨西哥的当地社区一起收获和使用龙舌兰的如何与许多不同的目的一起使用。我们如何与他们合作以支持蝙蝠的龙舌兰恢复,同时仍然有利于人民。哇。是的。所以已经知道这是该研究的一小部分的一部分。 I mean, there’s a lot of other research, like I said, going into covid, going into how bats can live such long lives. They live extraordinarily long lives without getting high rates of cancer. You know, how can they do that? Can we learn from them to boost our own immune systems? There’s just a lot of research going on with bats.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:08:14]So tell us more since covid, of course, is what’s on all of our minds and in our hearts. Tell us more about some of the research that’s emerging, you know, with that in particular. And and I love how you you already referenced this, but I’d love to hear a little bit more about some of the kind of storytelling that you’re having to do in order to educate and and help people like me, for instance, who heard a story and made an assumption, help us learn what’s the what’s the fact versus the fiction of the science there.

Kristen Lear.[00:08:46]这是一个很大的大事,因为关于Covid的新闻渠道的流行媒体中有很多文章。正确的。发生了很多。并且很难知道要收听的是什么,你知道,很多媒体故事,他们基本上都是写的。正确的。销售他们的故事并获得观点。因此,在这种情况下倾向于获得视图的事情是敏感绘制蝙蝠的事物问题的事情,例如,在可怕光中。不幸的是,一旦发生了,它就会很难做到这一点。所以我认为作为蝙蝠保护主义者,作为蝙蝠生物学家和研究人员,我们所做的是我们正在研究蝙蝠本身并试图弄清楚实际发生的事情。然后我们所做的一大部分是将这一点翻译成日常语言。 Right. Because you can’t just publish a paper in a scientific journal and call it quits. We really need to reach out and explain what we’re finding in ways that everyone can understand. And that’s where stories come in. That’s where connecting with people and really understanding why people have the view that they do and connecting with them on a personal level is so important. I think…

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:10:12]我同意。我喜欢那个,我看到你在这么大的工作中。所以你有点。你被称为蝙蝠女士,对吗?我喜欢你是多么可关节你的媒体存在。我想到了很多学者,我都包括在内,当我在学术界作为一名教授时,真的挣扎着阐明我对外界的研究。我的意思是,最终,我想我在它中取得了成功,因为我在那个确切的使命组织了一家公司。但我只是有点看到。我认为所有学者都意识到如何以每个人都能理解的方式向任何人解释我们的研究。但这是如此批判。 It’s so important that we do that. It’s especially when we’re working in public institutions or we’re getting federal grant dollars to do that research and just really believe in the importance of making sure that those taxpayer dollars that we’re spending on research at the university level are then translated back to those taxpayers. I think that makes the world a better place, a smarter and more intelligent place where it can make good decisions. But I love that about your work. So can you share with us what made you decide to call yourself the bat lady and to really be more public facing with your research?

Kristen Lear.[00:11:29]真的,我认为这是几个原因。一个是蝙蝠,我想,真的为自己借给这种更多的公开外联。他们就像我说,经常被误解的动物组。而且对他们来说有很多误解。但这意味着有很多机会与人联系在一起。然后回到讲故事,现在每个人都有一个像哦,我的奶奶在她家里有蝙蝠。我们在Bracken Cave看到蝙蝠出来,太酷了。每个人都知道有人或有一个关于蝙蝠的故事。所以我认为这是一个非常伟大的开放,可以与人交谈并连接到蝙蝠重要性的个人级别以及让他们的重要性。所以我认为我是我所做的最令人兴奋的部分之一,是与人的联系。 So that’s part of why being back later and like personifying that is really fun for me because it’s fun, but it also helps with that connection.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:12:38]I especially admire when a younger professional, you know, chooses to do that truly. Well, I think it is harder when you’re a postdoc or a PhD student and there can sometimes be a power dynamic. And it sort of depends on your mentor and your dissertation advisor and all of that. But there could sometimes be a dynamic where graduate students feel more shy or more nervous to put their arguments or their perspectives out into the world. But I think once you’re at the PhD level, you are deserving for the most part to be sharing your research and practice as early as you can. Absolutely practice forming the story around your research, because that’s going to help you get grant funding. It’s going to help you ultimately get the research job that you’re looking for and get buy-in for the directions that that research could take. Right?

Kristen Lear.[00:13:31]是的,这也是一个令人兴奋的事情,也是总是学到更多的空间,并且总有空间才能改善。我现在一直在进行会谈和公开演示。很长时间。

Katie Trauth Taylor.是的。

Kristen Lear.等等,就像,我有这种类似于我的演示文稿,然后我根据观众调整。但实际上是一篇刚刚在几天前出现的论文,了解如何沟通蝙蝠以及如何最好地做到这一点,特别是给予人们的偏见和其他心理偏见。它真的让我思考我呈现的方式以及我谈论的事情的方式。我从那篇论文中学到了很多关于如何改善自己的演示文稿。所以我认为这是一个非常有趣的事情之一,是它总是改变,总是有空间来了解更多,做得更好

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:14:28]告诉我们一些你从该文章中收集的策略。

Kristen Lear报价图像

Kristen Lear.[00:14:32]Oh, gosh, yeah, I was talking about – and I might have actually done this already – but when you when you’re talking about, like, myths about bats, for example, if you bring up the myth first before couching that as a myth or before countering that with something else, people will associate what you say with the myth. Like they’ll think of the myth first, like bats are blind. And that’s not true.

Katie Trauth Taylor.是的。

Kristen Lear.So it’s really interesting how how you say things really matters. And so, again, with the storytelling, it goes back to how we do things, why we say things and how we say it for who we’re talking to.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:15:15]哦是的。天啊。我 - 我们是这样的信徒。所以我认为我们去年创建了一个培训,称为创新讲故事培训,我们乐动体育266一直在提供不同的创新团队和研发团体。我们谈到的是其中一个,它让我想起它被称为连续位置效果。这是一个想法,因为人类我们更容易记住我们听到的东西,我们听到最后一个和中间的东西,我们可以更容易忘记。因此,如果你从神话开始,那就意识到了,如果你从一个神话和在一个故事中间开始,你说,哦,这不是真的,这可能导致更多的混乱。

Kristen Lear.[00:15:59]它可能会在他们的大脑中巩固这个神话,尽管这就是你想要柜台的东西。

Katie Trauth Taylor.是的,究竟。

Kristen Lear.如你所知,我在我所有的会谈中都这样做了。所以,你知道,采取我们从其他领域的学习并将其应用于您的工作的东西,我认为这是如此重要。并根据所有这些新信息适应改变是如此重要。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:16:22]是的,绝对。又一次,我喜欢你的工作是你是一位科学讲故事者,你知道。那么你能告诉我你的观点是什么吗?我想我们已经分享了它,但我只想直接问你,为什么讲故事对科学有关?

Kristen Lear.[00:16:38]它非常重要,因为它以一种可以理解的方式获取信息。你知道,有些字段不是。有问题的,我猜,从那种保护感,野生动物一般都很容易理解基本水平。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:16:56]People tend to be passionate about animals. Most people have a place in their heart for animals and curiosity around that, naturally.

Kristen Lear.[00:17:02]是的。所以我认为,从某种意义上说,你知道,它是......我很幸运能与蝙蝠一起工作,因为他们是动物,人们被动物吸引。而且还有很多好饲料的故事。就像我之前所说的那样,人们有自己的蝙蝠故事,但甚至可能看起来似乎没有讲故事的领域,比如物理或数学,数学,你知道,那些仍然为故事开放。我想找到让它变得有趣并使其可关联的方法如此挑战,但真的是工作的有趣部分之一。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:17:39]For sure, and I think there are ways to make data and share data in a way that harkens to a story and a story doesn’t always have to look like the hero’s journey or the way that we’re sort of trained to to think of it in Pixar language, although there’s a lot of power to that structure. But in terms of data itself, just putting a lot of numbers and figures up on the board or having pie charts instead of other kinds of visuals, those can really lead to people walking away, not understanding why the data mattered to what you were trying to say. And the more you can provide context and the more you can think about what’s the story of the data and how do I communicate that in a way that’s accurate. But that still is memorable and clear to people. I think when you can figure that out, it’s so important that I don’t think that a lot of scientists in graduate school are really taught to think that way about their data. It’s a little bit more like the data is the data. Yeah.

Kristen Lear.[00:18:39]我的意思是,我们被教导在我们的出版物中讲述一个故事,但这是一个非常不同的故事。你知道,它不是你想到字符的传统故事,你知道的东西。我认为研究生接受科学传播培训的实际上是一个很常见的程度。乐动体育266

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:19:01]这真的很令人兴奋。

Kristen Lear.[00:19:05]是的,一个更大的东西。当然,它不是无处不在。而且它仍然存在于大学内的牵引力,但绝对需要它。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:19:15]是的。是的。我最喜欢的一些时刻。我很幸运能够在组织或大学中工作,如普渡,非常融合在艺术和科学之间。因此,有很多真正的强大培训将进入工程学生获得通信培训和这种事情。乐动体育266所以我觉得很幸运能够看到那种真的很好的节目。但显然,你知道,我对此充满热情。我特别想到同行评审出版物作为研究生必须学习的整个语言。很有趣,我认为我们也很有用,也很有用,并且必须在贸易出版物或新闻网点和日常人员中描述我们的研究。这是诚实的挑战,而不是学习在同行评审期刊中出版的整个修辞场景。

Kristen Lear.[00:20:09]是的,这两种方式都是非常困难的,但非常重要。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:20:13]是的,我们谈论了很多,在修辞上,关于话语,社区以及一个社区如何谈论不同的共同语言而不是另一个社区的言论。And it can be really difficult, I think, especially in the sciences where there’s so much knowledge to be gained to even enter the conversation and have something to say that’s that’s valid and valued, that, you know, in order to kind of not unlearn that language, that’s it’s very important to be able to speak in the specificity that you need to to gain traction in your field. But just to remember to get rid of that jargon sometimes and just keep practicing calling up your dad and say, this is not what my research is doing.

Kristen Lear [00:21:01]对,就是这样。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:21:06.]克里斯汀,我知道你也非常热衷于赋予其他女性进入Stem领域。你能告诉我你与AAA一起工作的更多信息吗?

Kristen Lear.[00:21:15]是的。因此,AAASS有一个叫做IFONMASE大使计划的程序,它是斯蒂芬领域的妇女,以促进茎田的妇女的多样性,并鼓励女孩追求干词职业。对我而言,这就是个人真的有意义,因为我长大了,就像我说,一个女孩侦察员。通过夏令营,通过夏令营,通过父母在我小时候做实验的情况下,随着不同的茎田的曝光很大。我喜欢自然跑步,在外面跑去。所以对我来说,鼓励女孩对词干感兴趣是一个真正个人有意义的使命。And so as an ambassador, I work with girls of all ages so you have to spark that curiosity, to spark that interest in whatever field they’re interested in and to bring kind of my experience in that conservation as an example of how you can use your passion to develop into a career.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:22:22]这是在实际沟通的整个讲故事和故事分享的整个讲故事和故事层上触及了我们正在研究的主题。有这么多的力量,能够和愿意分享您的专业旅程和授权。Others by saying, hey, when I was young, I wasn’t sure if who I am fit what the identity of a scientist was in terms of the books that I read or the people that I met, and to challenge those stereotypes, kind of getting back to the very beginning of our conversation to to really question some of those stories that we tell ourselves about what we’re capable of or what we’re not.

Kristen Lear.[00:23:04]是的,那是......确切地。拥有这些可见的榜样是这个程序的使命中的一切点是让女性,多样化的女性在那里表明,年轻的科学家可以看起来像什么。您可以拥有所有这些其他兴趣。你知道,你可以拥有个人爱好。你可以非常多样化,仍然是一名科学家。而且,我认为,因为成长了,我对我来说非常有意义,我崇拜简德娃娃。她是我抬头外出和野生动物的女性之一。这就是我想要的。让她作为一个榜样,表明我是可行的,有可能做那样的职业。 And, you know, if I can do that and help some other girls find their passions no matter what it is, that, to me, that’s that’s the mission.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:24:03]我喜欢那个。那太美了。您是否有任何其他建议您希望与对创新和科学感兴趣的年轻女性分享?

Kristen Lear.[00:24:11]Oh, absolutely. So it’s never too early to get started. I did my Girl Scout project in sixth grade, I was 12. And, you know, looking back on that project, I have some old pictures of me with the bathhouses that I built, with the help of my grandparents and mom and dad. And looking at those houses, they’re really not the best type that houses. They’re not built in the best way that an ideal house should be built. Well, you know, when I was learning and you know that that experience really propelled me into what I do now. And so, yeah, just don’t be afraid to do something, even though it might not be perfect, even if you’re not sure exactly what you’re doing, just just try it. I think that it really is important to just try something and then also reach out to people, I think especially nowadays with so much connection. You know, we have the Internet, we have social media, which is huge. There’s so many opportunities to connect with people who are working in a field that you’re interested in that it can’t hurt to reach out to these people. You know, I get emails and Instagram messages from people, from kids or their parents who are interested in learning about bats and bat conservation as a career. And I think reaching out to people who are doing what you want to do is a really great way to get an idea of the field and to start making those connections.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:25:47]我不能同意更多。是的,我喜欢那样的。是的。And from the mentor’s perspective, if you’re listening to this, I think it’s really important to keep sharing your story and open up and be open to mentoring and making time for that, because what we put out into the world will come back to us. So, Kristen, I’m so grateful that we had some time to talk on the podcast today. I love the work that you do, the way that you translate it between your own subject matter expert circles and the broader world and young women as well. So there’s so much to learn from the work that you’re doing. And could you tell us where we can find you online?

Kristen Lear.[00:26:24]是的,我在社交媒体上。我在Instagram @batsforlife_kristen,然后twitter @batsforlife。而且它不是四号。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:26:41]我喜欢它。

Kristen Lear.[00:26:42]是的,绝对。我喜欢张贴关于这一点。你知道,我所做的是关于保护主义者的。所以如果有疑问,那么肯定会检查一下,然后再伸出援助之声。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:26:52]Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Kristen, for being on the podcast. So grateful to have you.

Kristen Lear [00:26:56]谢谢你让我。这很棒。

Katie Trauth Taylor [00:26:59]感谢您在本周的剧集中听。请务必在社交媒体上关注我们,并将您的声音添加到谈话中。您可以在未销售内容中找到我们。乐动体育足球