“Hearing other people's input is really valuable and learning from those who have gone before you, but also learning from people who are relatively new to a field, and have a different background than you. And that's what I really like about what IRI does to bring people together.” --- Lee Green
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Katie Taylor[00:00:00]欢迎来到未罗革说的创新故事，在那里我们扩大了不带无国内内容的洞察力，影响和创新的解开乐动体育足球。我是你的主人，凯蒂泰勒。我们的客人今天是Lee Green，她是创新研究交汇处知识创作的副总裁，也称为Ayari Lee。非常感谢您在播客。
Lee Green[00:01:00]所以,是的,IRI,我们有大约150个不同的成员companies. We call them member companies, but they actually encompass an industry professionals and things like that, but also federal labs, NASA, Dowi Labs, things like that, too. So it’s a real mix of individuals. And what I always say is that although the results of innovation are different for most of our members, the processes that they use to get there are often very similar. And that’s where we come in. We’re able to help members to look at the different ways that they get to their products and help them to figure out ways of improving those processes. So whether it’s finding the right talent or managing a portfolio of different projects or identifying those great ideas earlier and getting them to market faster, we try to help in all those different regards. And a key component of that is the personal connections that we make. We hold live events, but we also enable people to network virtually. We hold kind of discussion groups and things like that. And so we really want to be able to make those connections for people so that when they’re facing a challenge, it’s great if they come through us. But we think it’s even better if they go to somebody that they met at the IRI and at one of our events or in another way and are able to interact and communicate their challenges together and work together to help to solve them.
Lee Green[00:02:46]I did not. I didn’t. But it is the nice one. Yes.
Katie Taylor[00:04:08]What were some of those trends?
Lee Green[00:04:11]Oh, goodness. There was a few years back now, but some of the more controversial ones were augmented humans, so people would be augmenting themselves to be appropriate for a particular job. So whether that’s implanting sensors within your hands and fingers so that you could so you could sense what was going on the factory floor or things like that, or whether it’s taking some kind of medication to make you able to stay up late or something minor like that. So that was one of the deaths of IP was another one that always kind of whenever I gave the presentation, people would get twitchy. When I mention that, I’m sure. But if you think about basically our assertion there was that it was going to be speed to market would largely replace patents as the means of getting value from things.
Katie Taylor[00:05:36]是的。I mean, that’s what’s so interesting about future telling. Right. So some of those predictions will happen and others won’t, but at least we’ll be trying to think five steps ahead.
Lee Green[00:05:47]确切地。研究本身很迷人，很有趣。但挑战是，我们的成员无法在其自己的公司中真正承担更多信息。正确的。有些有些组织可以预测，他们做得很好。你知道，雪佛龙和贝壳在未来和美国陆军做了一个壮观的报告，实际上，他们已经走了50年，对我来说很令人惊讶。正确的。我不知道他们是如何做到的。做了二十五年，50年似乎令人震惊。但是有没有公司这样做，他们做得很好，因为我们正在寻找一个整体研发。 It was kind of hard to be, it was even harder to be specific than it is for when you’re focusing just on oil and gas or the military or something like that.
Katie Taylor[00:07:36]I love the collaborative nature of what IRI is all about because I think historically anyway and still this is true, companies were a little less prone to interact or share their trade secrets or their IP. And I know that’s still a concern and it’s still carefully navigated for Ayari members. But the fact that you exist and that so many incredible companies and organizations and public sector agencies participate I think lends a lot of hope to what’s possible when you open innovation a bit and you invite conversation and collaboration, especially around shared challenges.
Lee Green[00:08:20]是的,这是你知道的,很难巴拉的罢工nce. You know, one of our programs is the networks and those focused mainly on different techniques. All areas of R&D, so we’ve got a network around intellectual property, which, you know, the irony isn’t lost on us. There is also new business development, external technology, things like that. And so they’re focused on that particular element of how you get R&D done. And one of the most popular elements of those networks is that they meet twice a year. And the first two hours of every meeting is a roundtable discussion. And it’s when people can come together and they share their current challenges and they get feedback, live feedback from their peers on how they can attempt to tackle them. You know, whether it’s just commiseration, like, oh, yeah, we’ve got that problem, too, or it’s, hey, we tried this. Why don’t you give it a shot or we tried this. It didn’t work. So don’t bother to add that one. Why don’t you try this instead? And so that’s always a very popular element of that program. And the challenge has always been to make sure that people feel comfortable in that space. And so people are always asking me, what can I have the notes from that session? And we actually don’t take any notes. We don’t recorded in any way because it’s one of the I always whenever I used to go to those meetings and I would introduce IRI and kind of lay the ground rules for the conference, I would say, well, it’s like Vegas, you know, whatever happens, it network stays and networks and, you know, just to put people at their ease, you know, and I would say you’re welcome to attribute the ideas to something you learned at Ayari. We really want you to do that. But never say like, oh, I learned this from Joe Blow at Acme Corporation. You have to be very specific. And, you know, that program has been running for many, many years now. And I’ve never heard of a problem of somebody saying, hey, you got me in big trouble. You shouldn’t have shared that. But it’s been wildly successful in that way. People feel safe. And that’s really that’s something that’s lacking in a lot of different areas now.
Lee Green[00:11:42]是的，正如你所说，这是非常重要的，很多东西在那里有很多东西在那里，科学家无法向人们解释，你知道，如果你愿意，他们正在做什么。我在IRI互动的人对他们的工作非常热衷。如果你谈论他们，那么难以让他们停下来。而且大部分时间都可以与我分享。我有一个社会科学背景。所以很多他们正在做的东西都完全在我的头上。但他们能够与我分享他们正在做的事情。所以但它带来了很长时间才能到达这一点。这不是人们获得培训的东西。乐动体育266据我所知，它不普遍培训组织。 That’s a bad way of making sure it’s people don’t normally get that training during their educational process. It’s true as far as I know.
Katie Taylor[00:12:43]正确的。我的意思是，我的个人背景也是如此。我是前研究教授，并与不同的研发利益攸关方，领导和工程师，科学家合作致力于合作。在那些角色中，我一次又一次地看到了这一挑战。And I’ve spoken with a lot of scientists and with other technical writing professors who analyzed those trends to see that most scientists really don’t get very much communication and writing training, even though many of them are expected to publish really significantly and through some ayari research. I recently learned, too, that in order to progress into leadership levels in their organizations, they really need strong communication and writing in those interpersonal skills that are so important to being able to explain value. And impact and align the research efforts and the developments coming out with the larger organizational mission. So all of this work is so I’m sorry I already jumped in to do what you were saying, but I am passionate that this should be part of training, especially among individuals in the innovation community.
Lee Green[00:13:55]Yeah, I agree. I think part of the reason that the people that I’m seeing are so able to share with me in layman’s terms what they’re doing is that kind of self-selecting aspect of moving into those managerial roles. So the people who aren’t able to communicate in that way often don’t make it into the management side of things. And so the people who are doing are staying on the scientific side. They are moving on the fellowship track. So we often hear about dual ladders. And, you know, they’ve been changing that around a lot lately. There are more different types of ladders. But when I first began in this several, several years ago, there was a dual career track and it was. Yeah, that’s easier than technical. Yeah. The technical folks went on to become fellows or you could go on and move into the management track. But what I think is so impressive to me about the people that I interact with through my job, you know, IRI members, is that the people who move to the management track, they don’t they don’t lose that scientific background. You know, they’re still famous and physicists and things like that. But they’re also expected to have that management acumen as well. And that’s really challenging. You know, that’s why these clothes. It’s so impressive what they’re able to do because they have to understand the science behind what’s going on so that they can understand how to get the products made and what the processes are. But they also have to be able to manage that entire process. And that’s a serious spread of skills that are required of these individuals.
Katie Taylor[00:15:43]是的是的。我认为，对于首席创新官员或首席技术人员来说，压力比以往更重，不仅可以管理他们的团队并仍然掌握技术知识和专业知识，而且还能够将这些调查结果传达给他们other C suite leaders and the, you know, stockholders or other investors or shareholders or even consumers to be able to say, here’s why you should trust that we are, in fact, innovative, and here’s why you can believe that the the the projects that we’re working on will matter. And so really having that scale of being able to market and explain and have thought leadership in those roles as CIO and CTO, I think it’s there’s more pressure than ever before in those roles to be able to do that part, too.
Lee Green[00:16:38]Yeah, I agree. We actually did a study not long ago on the path that individuals were taking to become the CTO or the person who is the head of R&D and potentially innovation within an organization. And it was fascinating to me the very different paths that people were taking to get there. It almost was as if they needed to have this massive grab bag of experiences in order to get the role that they had. It was difficult to find areas that were similar across the board of all the individuals that we interviewed, because there were just so many different things that they had all done that got them to that position. It was very surprising to me.
Katie Taylor[00:17:25]Yes, absolutely. I think it speaks to how important it is to companies that those roles are embodied by individuals who are highly diverse and who really can speak across silos and across areas of interest in the organization and be able to. You know, I wonder, too, if it has something to do with consumer demand for purchasing from companies that they perceive as being innovative. And so now innovation and technology, they really can’t be boiled down to any one silo in the organization. They really have to permeate all that we do.
Lee Green[00:18:04]这是真的,我们看到这个特殊的研究中,one of the reasons I was talking about the whole head of R&D versus CTO versus chief innovation officer is because so many different organizations are struggling to figure out how it all fits together. It’s how do you integrate R&D and marketing and innovation and manufacturing and all of these things to ensure that you’re innovative and you just put a chief innovation officer at the top of all of them and assume it’s going to trickle down. That seems a bit hopeful, but you just don’t know. And so companies are trying to move things around in my experience, or they’re trying to figure out what the best fit is there. And it’s very challenging.
Katie Taylor[00:18:56]这是。And I think in the organizations that that we’ve worked with in particular, I think the the ones where there’s a lot of collaboration happening between sales and marketing and R&D, that tends to really help accelerate the ability of that organization to be perceived as innovative because the insights of their experts and their SMEs, if you will, are not left at the lab bench or only getting presented at scientific conferences. They’re also getting pulled into thought leadership pieces that if marketing and R&D work really well together, they can create a relationship where they are. Marketing is helping R&D to translate their insights and establish thought leadership without losing the technical nuance that makes their research accurate and evidence based and clear. But, you know, leveraging it in a way that purchasers can understand and that really just different stakeholders can understand or stockholders. So that sort of collaboration, I think, is more important than ever.
Lee Green[00:20:09]你知道，这很有趣，因为我现在实际上试图推出一个项目，我们一直在努力让它离开地面，因为它被称为鼓励自治和赋权研发团队。其中一个是许多不同的成员那种进入这个项目。这就是我们努力从地面挣扎的原因的一部分是因为每个人似乎都想要一个不同的作品。但是我听说过这个项目的投诉之一是营销有时可以和这种情况显然并非总是如此，这是他们与我分享的个人经验。但是，当研发和营销结合时，研发可以觉得他们几乎可以从一个营销和销售中徘徊，而不是突发奇想，但欲望和推动下一个。和研发不一定能够。推动自己的议程并说，这些是我们能够提出的事情，或者这些是我们正在努力的创新，因为它们几乎被外部所看到的需求所掩盖。And so there’s this kind of push and pull between the two of them of how you get the right balance between getting input from sales and marketing, but also allowing innovators to to do what they do best, you know, come up with new ideas and come up with new technologies and giving them the independence and the freedom to spend some time, you know, whether that’s, you know, skunkworks or innovation time, as some organizations call it, to let them really explore and play and figure out what they want to do. And so it’s so challenging when, yes, you want to break down silos and yes, you want organizations to be open and sharing information. But at other times, they feel almost kind of piled on. They feel like they’re having to serve so many different masters that they’re not able to accomplish and do what they do best.
Katie Taylor[00:22:16]哦，这太难了。是的，这太难了。另一个严重的挑战是营销可能希望以延长或膨胀潜在的影响或贷款，以便R＆D尚未准备清楚，或者他们关心的是有证据基础。因此，在没有销售的情况下，没有真正的挑战，而且不仅在思考正确的旋转。正确的。像数据仍然很重要。研究仍然很重要。你必须告诉什么是真的。所以这是另一个重要的戏剧规则。我想当我们谈论营销和研发可能会很好地播放，我实际上没有看到他们所结合的任何组织。 Is that what you were mentioning?
Katie Taylor[00:23:40]我见过。是的，我明白你的意思。另一个用于在这一切的情况下在这里列出挑战。不要在一天结束时放弃。但另一个挑战是时候了。因此，对于销售和营销而言，通常最重要和最关键的是年度路线图。因此，那一年的优先事项，而作为创新团队，你通常被指控比那更大，而不是比这更大。因此，能够进入企业内部的销售和营销的规则重大决策，能够挑战，作为一个创新团队，能够挑战销售和营销，真正仍然冠军，并落后于可能的创新思想not land on the annual roadmap, but they might land on the one that’s two years from now. That can also be another challenge. But I think confronting that and being clear that they, you know, as an innovation leader, being open to understanding and empathetic, that I get that these ideas are longer term. But we really need your support as a champion and think of what could happen, you know, in the short and long term if we were to to greenlight this particular idea or project. That’s one piece of advice, I guess, for navigating that challenge.
Lee Green[00:25:05]Yeah, it is very difficult. And I think the ability of innovation practitioners, particularly those who took that management track that we mentioned, to be able to communicate and to explain what’s going on and how the processes work and not use a bunch of jargon that’s going to make people shut down and stop listening to it is very important. That’s why there’s that communication element that’s so important for the people who end up taking the management route.
Lee Green[00:26:06]Oh excellent. It’s it’s just been such a fascinating project and yeah, it was it’s amazing how much it has the themes of that project are impacting the themes that I’m having on other projects as well, because in order to have in order to be comfortable failing, which, let’s face it, most people are not especially high achieving individuals who have worked for years to get their Ph.D. and then to move into an organization. And so these are people that are used to doing well and to be able to say I’m OK with the fact that this project failed. That’s pretty significant. And it’s kind of a buzzword. People want to be able to feel comfortable failing and people want to hear about the failed cases and how people learned from their mistakes. But it’s challenging because not a lot of people are willing to share that information. So it has to be very nuanced in how you approach it. And one of the roadblocks that we had with this particular project was identifying case studies. And case studies are a very important element in a lot of our projects and being able to get eyes into three to five companies is very important to us, and it really helps to tell the story of this particular project and how these things work in those organizations. And so trying to get people to participate in a case study called Brilliant Failures was really hard.
Lee Green[00:27:46]Yeah, very much the stigma. There was at least one company that just flat out said, we’ll do it, but you got to change the name. And the project team was adamant. They said we’re trying to break down the stigma and we’re keeping our name. So admittedly, this was fairly far into the project. And so they were they were pretty entrenched at this point earlier on. They might have been a bit more willing to change, but no, they stuck to their guns and they got their case studies. But it was hard. It took longer than we thought and it was challenging. But we got there in the end. And what I’m enjoying is a lot of the projects that I’m working on subsequently, this encouraging autonomy project that I mentioned and a couple others on, actually one on time to market speed to market, where we’re kind of workshopping the name there a little bit interesting. There’s a lot of failure, but also a kind of psychological safety. And, you know, because particularly with the encouraging autonomy, one that I’ve mentioned a lot of that is if you feel empowered, then you feel OK. If you make it, if you make a mistake, you’re not terrified that you’re going to lose your job. And so feeling empowered is also what ties into, you know, being willing to take risks and being willing to accept that sometimes those risks are going to turn out well for you, being comfortable that you’re probably still going to have a job after that happens. And so it’s all that kind of psychological safety element. And so I’ve been sharing a lot of information from the Brilliant Failures Project with other projects down the line, because so much of it is so much of it is intertwined.
Katie Taylor[00:29:41]是的。Well, one of my favorite moments from last year’s IRI conference when I went to the panel discussion where they were presenting findings from the brilliant failures research and one of the things they did in the beginning, Jeff Bezos, of course, Amazon CEO, had just released his annual letter to shareholders. And in it he said, you need to expect more failures from us this year because if we’re going to have successes, you’re going to see not just more failures, bigger failures and how he worded it. And the research team shared that. And I remember the room just sort of I think was energized by that idea that, oh, we’re we’re in a new world now where there’s an expectation for failure and that, in fact, they need if you’re not creating bigger failures, that may be a sign that you’re not taking enough risks.
Lee Green[00:30:33]是啊是啊。这是非常有趣，非常具有挑战性，以便在你不习惯的公司中进入这家公司。我们最近对R＆D投资组合的平衡风险进行了研究，因此依赖于组织内的风险的文化。如果您觉得贵公司愿意冒险，那么您更有可能觉得您可以继续尝试使用不同的技术或那种新技术和类似的事情。这就是导致这些后续步骤的原因。But also, it’s not just the culture and it’s not something that management can snap their fingers and change. You know, it’s a lot easier to take risks when you’re making, you know, an iPhone than it is when you’re making a drug that people are going to be taking. Yes. So when you’re in a heavily regulated industry, a lot of this is a moot point because, you know, if you’re less willing to have a brilliant failure when you’re working for GlaxoSmithKline, the stakes are a bit higher there.
Katie Taylor[00:31:50]对，就是这样。是的。是的。在医疗保健，医学或航空，高可靠性行业。是的。这个想法是最大限度地减少风险。And but I like this research that you’re talking about, where you’re thinking of how to diversify your portfolio or certain projects, maybe higher risk and others are lower and then, of course, putting all those stopgaps in place to protect against catastrophic failures.
Lee Green[00:32:18]mm hmm。是啊，组织显然，舞台门在这一点上很无处不在，你知道，多年来，人们已经多次修改了这一点，但它很多是非常依赖什么样的文化在本组织内，以及从外面进入的文化，您知道，这些公司必须面对的法规和事物。
Katie Taylor[00:34:39]是的，我不能同意更多。而且，你知道，当然，我就是这样，所以投入了这个想法，很荣幸成为IRI社区的一部分。而且我很感激你今天的时间。我希望听众将签出创新研究交汇处。您可以在Iri Web的社交媒体上遵循它们。当然，Lee Green，我非常感谢今天与您讨论知识和研究合作。谢谢你在播客。