与机器人与merritt moore，芭蕾舞女演员，物理学家和有抱负的宇航员跳舞

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Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:00:04]欢迎来到创新的不陈述故事，在那里我们扩大了洞察力，影响和创新的解开故事。由无国界的内容提供支持乐动体育足球，我是您的主人，Katie Trauth Taylor。我们的客人今天是Merritt Moore博士。她被称为量子芭蕾舞女演员。摩尔博士毕业于哈佛大学的Magna Cuf Shude荣誉，然后用博士学位。来自牛津大学的原子和激光物理学。与此同时，她正在与苏黎世芭蕾舞团，波士顿芭蕾舞，英国国家芭蕾舞团和挪威民族芭蕾舞队进行专业的芭蕾舞职业。她是一个《福布斯》30以下30岁以下，她是12名选定的候选人之一，在BBC系列中接受严格的宇航员选择“宇航员：你有什么需要？”所以今天我们与物理学家，芭蕾舞演员和宇航员发表。我非常感谢你今天在播客。

Merritt Moore.[00:01:01]哦，非常感谢你。这是我的荣幸。我是一个Wannabe宇航员，希望这将是标题的一部分。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:01:11]这是正确的。我看到…，显然我已经知道你出色的工作了。我读过反叛女孩的晚安故事我六岁的女儿。我们也看到了你的故事，非常有影响力。当然，在做了更多的研究之后，你会意识到，是的，你的梦想之一是在太空中跳舞，对吗?

Merritt Moore.[00:01:34]是的。我的意思是，这是 - 即最终的梦想。那就是我在追求之后思考，我渴望物理和自然跳舞，然后毕业后。好吧，实际上，对。虽然我正在写作我的论文，但有机会申请成为12个选定的候选人之一，以与宇航员克里斯菲尔德接受宇航员选择进程。而且我很幸运能成为那12的人之一。它只是让我的思绪吹走了。而且我就像，“哇，我没想到这一点。”比如，这是一个职业，你知道，融入了高的心理和体力。所以，我一直是个冒险家。所以从那时起，我就像，我想在月球上跳舞。 Let’s go.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:02:30]是的，一点没错。是的。因此，只有它听起来只催化你要做的愿望。

Merritt Moore.[00:02:37]耶，当然了。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:02:40]对于那些可能没有能够与机器人跳舞的倾听者来说，这是一种动人和有意义的，这只是一种其他世界的体验。我很想知道，首先，如果你没有看到任何倾听没有看到它的话，你肯定需要研究它并看看，只看Merritt和机器人之间的舞蹈如何改变我们如何查看技术。它真的搬家了。我很想听到如果你能在时间和地告诉我们那种时候，那么当你首次开始通过舞蹈玩这种科学沟通的概念时，请听到我们。

Merritt Moore.[00:03:24]哦,是的,当然。我希望它能通过舞蹈扩大到科学研究领域。我的背景是物理，当然我也有舞蹈背景。当我完成我的博士学位的时候，其中一个我是说，我在过去的10年里一直在隐藏，比如躲避我追求物理学的舞蹈，躲避英国舞蹈中的物理。我只是把它们分开了。我在哈佛学了四年物理学，在牛津学了五年，还参加了四个芭蕾舞团，我当时想，为什么不两个都参加呢?为什么不能合并它们?在追寻这一目标的过程中，我想我读到的那些让我好奇的问题是科技和科学研究是如何激发人类的创造力激发新的编舞激发新的运动。于是我就像掉进了兔子洞，我开始问这些问题。有趣的是，就像，宇宙会向你扔东西一样。 So I was asking these questions while I was dancing at Norwegian National Ballet Performance while making the Bider and a friend of a friend, I found out, like, worked in robotics. And I had to ask I was like, can I come in and hang out with. So I would go like after rehearsals, in between performances, I would go in and just start playing around. And it’s this robot that is like a six jointed industrial arm. Right. So it’s like it doesn’t have like two legs, two arms. Right. It’s just like one weird six jointed thing. Were intrigued by how it moved and how it could inspire me to create a new movement and how I could then incorporate the movement onto the robot and was invited by Harvard Art Lab to be one of their first artists in residence to explore this. And the art lab is an incredible space where they allow artists the space to pursue research without the pressure of a final performance. So I was given the space to research and this was January and February twenty twenty right before covid and then covid hit. I was in London and you know, everyone’s locked down and it was such a devastating time. I mean, I think it’s still quite devastating for the arts and dance in particular. And I think when faced with the challenge, I think instantly well, instantly my brain goes, OK, here, we’re confronted with a challenge. What you know, there’s a silver lining to it. And what is it and what is it? What can I do to push the arts forward? And so. You know, I had to make a number of phone calls to the robot company Universal Robotics, who was wonderful and I was like, you will lend me a robot. And they’re like, not really like, but actually I think you guys do. And so they finally agreed to lend me a robot that was going to be just for two weeks and then it ended up being a month and then it ended up being a couple months. And now it’s a continuation in a really, really wonderful collaboration. And yeah, I’ve been having just such a great time pursuing that.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:07:16]你能给我们介绍一下你如何进行舞蹈编排的科学和技术吗?是你在编码机器人的动作吗?你有和其他支持这项技术的技术人员合作吗?这个合作过程是什么样的?

Merritt Moore.[00:07:32]封锁期间绝对是一个人的表演而我是一个人加机器人的表演。所以我必须用各种各样的，他们称之为，路径点来编排舞蹈。所以你设定了机器人移动的点然后你有了这个速度你有了这个你想让它如何弯曲的集合。最难的部分是让它与音乐相匹配，然后。我在编程，然后我用我的iPhone点击播放音乐，在录像机上播放，在机器人上播放，在我的手机上播放，就像绊倒电线和编辑一样。所有这些都是肯定的。只有我一个人。就像有时会有弹跳。不会有。我很幸运，在伦敦有一个废弃的剧院，他们让我在封锁期间呆在那里。 But like there were times when it was too dark. And so I’d be carrying this 20 foot ladder to, like, put the light bulb up on the thing. Like, I literally was like, you know, what we do for the arts man.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:08:56]你觉得这个过程怎么样？我们在非Covid时期吗？

Merritt Moore.[00:09:04]我不知道我是否就会像我一样去探索我认为新冠肺炎迫使我们重新思考，重新分析，重新做一切。所以我是超级忙着其他所有的演出,我排队,我不认为我将有个月为机器人和机器人公司恳求他们也没有时间和空间来花,因为它会带我小时当我第一次明白了一样,你知道,我每天从早上到午夜都在做它，随着时间的推移，它变得越来越容易。但是开始的时候，我不知道，我到底要怎么做一个有6个关节的东西看起来像或者像一个两条腿的温暖的人的运动，对吧?我觉得这非常有趣，我想到的各种问题是，研究表明，90%的交流是非语言的，主要是肢体语言。所以我就想，身体语言一定要以人类的形式出现吗?它也能以这种奇怪的机器人形式出现吗?这也是推动艺术和舞蹈发展的有趣时期。这也是一个与世界上最优秀的机器人研究人员合作的好机会。 So, one is like Jose Luis Garcia [del Castillo Lopez], who is at Harvard, was helping me like make it interactive when I was at the art lab, we’ve got like great collaborators in India, just like now, been working with another company robotic, who just sent me, like, they were like a little hand thing in it, what they call like a force copilots. So it can remember movement better. So I’m loving this as an opportunity to investigate research more while enhancing the art form. And so, yes, because I think often there’s a belief that science and art should come together. But I think a somewhat disappointing outcome is that it normally just tends to be art, helping science communicate. It turns to be science communication in an art form. But I think the standard of both tends to drop so that the standard of science tends to drop and standard of art tends to drop when they are together. And I’ve been super passionate about it. Pursuing these with excellence, hence I had pursued them separately, but now as I merge them together, I want to make sure that they’re enhancing each other and improving each other, not we’re not dumbing down in order to be together. So it’s like, how can my being like I really want this robot to be moving around the floor. Who do I talk to? What roboticist I talk to? How do we, like, collaborate if it doesn’t exist, how do we create it? And also on the art side, like, oh, like with this new technology, can we create these emotions in this way? Yeah. So I’m just really enjoying it. It feels natural in the way that these are coming together.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:12:45]Definitely, I think that story of collaboration is it’s really unreal and that image of you so so certainly the collaborative part of it, but also just that there’s so much beauty and that image of you in the theater working hour after hour alone with the technology, trying to uncover it and for them for the research purposes that you had. I think a lot of quarantine times have called our creativity into question. And it’s been a major challenge, I think, for almost everyone to dream up new worlds when we’re so confined. You did. It’s such a beautiful example of that. I just wanted to reflect on that first, and then I want to dig more into this idea of art as a form of scientific communication versus both elevating the other. So many of the people who we work with that I’m told, are coders and technologists and inventors and innovators trying to build new technologies and ideally building those technologies in a way that’s deeply empathetic with the people who ultimately will benefit or use those technologies. But oftentimes they sort of fall into typical or standardized ways of communicating those innovations and focusing on the features or the very detailed, fact filled science behind it. Really important, but something that we try to do. What I’m told is like research story frameworks. ARC’s patterns map them into innovation contexts in order to try to more deeply understand how we can push innovation storytelling beyond some of those sort of standard or default approaches. So, yeah, anyway, I’d love to hear your perspective on that. And then I have a question, of course, about the story in the choreography work that you do. But that’s maybe as a follow on question.

Merritt Moore.[00:14:56]是的，好吧，我想我的意思是，案例在现在与我现在正在使用的通用机器人和各种机器人公司合作。而且我认为最初有犹豫，可以理解，你知道，有像这个随机女孩一直叫他们。但就像他们就像人们一样不会买一个机器人来跳舞。正确的。但是我觉得他们的脑袋是什么，为什么？我不知道为什么这对公司有利于这些舞蹈机器人与你跳舞。这是什么？但我认为当我开始发布视频时发现了他们发现的是围绕着病毒性质的兴奋。所以，在某些视频中，在几天内，某些视频就像1400万次观看，你知道，他们永远不会得到的东西。显示机器人抬起杯子，吧？ Yeah, yeah, and and their mission in their motto is continuing its human machine interaction, human machine collaboration. But I think there’s a lot of fear towards machine robots. But now I think when men and women see, you know, me dancing right next to it, they’re like, oh, actually this is like dancing with this robot, like, how scary can they be? So, like, it’s like subliminally kind of like forwarding messages and I mean, talking about subliminal messages. But for me, a lot of my motivation behind this as well is just creating a different image of what it is to be a scientist. Right. It doesn’t mean you have to be sitting in a corner regurgitating facts from a book. You can be creative, you can be artistic, you can want to discover talk like it’s not scary. You can be feminine, you can not be feminine. You can do whatever you want. But just trying to… I think by creating it, offering a different image than what’s there, it allows people’s imagination to then be like, oh, OK, you know, maybe I can have a robot soccer player or like, you know, if it’s dancing to Bruno Mars, then maybe he can do other things.

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:17:32)是的，它真的都是。这是你正在做的工作，改变它意味着物理学家和科学家。相反，你拥有机器人的工作确实改变了对可能的事情或者机器人的看法或者他们应该如何存在于世界上。因此，我们对他们的看法，这可能会为不同的应用和医学或教育开辟全新的领域，或者知道可能没有看到我们没有看到这种更柔软，更加合作的技术合作方面也不会发生的全新的。And like you said, the sense of fear that we often have around AI and robotics and the fear of replacing the human, I just think when you watch the movements that you’re able to achieve with these robots, it tells such a deeper and such a different story. It’s really, really deeply powerful. It’s not surprising how viral it’s been.

Merritt Moore.[00:18:33]我觉得你刚才说的很有意思。那种害怕被取代的恐惧，因为我就像突然出现在我的脑海里，现在我就像你们一样，我应该做的事情，还有一段机器人的视频，因为那样它就不能，它就不能工作了。你知道，当机器人只靠自己的时候，你真的需要两者。还有那个机器人，为了这个图像，也要像它一样强大。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:19:04)所以，是的，你知道，我认为在你观看的时候会有一种情感反应或宣泄。有。我也会把它链接到节目笔记里。但几年前哈佛医学院的一项研究表明舞蹈和动作可以激活我们的情商。是的。这让我们以一种不同的方式来承受。

Merritt Moore.[00:19:31]超酷。是的，我很乐意读到这一点。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:19:34)所以，好的，让我们潜入这个故事的想法，因为我对你所做的那种讲故事的人很着迷，作为物理学家和芭蕾舞女演员。所以有一定的是......你会说......当你接近编排时，你是否有一定的故事或故事或故事或故事线，你进来了？这随着时间的推移如何？所以，是的，如果你可以说话，我不知道，如果你对围绕故事的舞蹈人的工作方式，那么你的工作就是......

Merritt Moore.[00:20:10]我会说这对我来说都是新的。所以我认为我的主要意图当我与机器人合作时，我认为最好的结果是当你给自己自由的时候。所以我刚刚开始充满感情，“好的，让我们玩得开心，让我们看看这是谁。”就故事而言，我实际上并没有完成一个故事的全长或更长的舞蹈，所以我也非常吻于这一点。就像，我现在一直在与一个真正进入诗歌和阅读讲故事的朋友的朋友会面，因为这不是我的世界。我已经引起了这些非常非言语，静音活动并没有真正拥有的活动，就像那个故事情节弧。所以这一直很有意思。是的，这绝对是我成长的一部分。我喜欢这项工作的研究是如何强迫我探索这样的其他领域。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:21:31]你知道，这让我想起了我，我认为也许是最好的方式，从我的角度来看，我认为到目前为止，你的机器人和舞蹈是什么样的我们所说的呼唤。您正在建立帮助我们所有人落后的背景，并了解这里的土地的可能性和类型。而且你是对的，它可能是为现在制造更长的碎片或涉及新的方式的剧情。但是，是的，就像现在，我们就是在那个开始部分暂存的那样。我认为它仍然存在它背后的故事，但也许不是在开始，中间和结束，那种传统的做法方式，

Merritt Moore.(00:22:13)你知道，但是如果你想在某个时候谈论这个或者像观众中的任何人一样，我想我被要求创造一个更长的版本，大概5分钟，20分钟，30分钟。这是我目前的项目清单。我觉得这很吓人。所以我非常渴望。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:22:45]显然，我很乐意集思广益，这是对我来说是一个梦想的想法和我做到这一点。所以是的，绝对是。是的。还有另一个，刚刚左转，我的头顶到了一个非常有趣的故事框架。这只是百万分之一。好的，但玩耍很有趣。它被称为叙述弧，这是一个文本分析仪。好吧，首先是一个理论。因此，从故事序列的角度来看，它从概要的角度看着一个故事是我们的阶段与其他函数的阶段。所以然后它需要每一个流行的电影，或者甚至没有任何电影，你可以看起来。 At what point in the film is it doing those different narrative arcs and then you can even put in your own texts. And granted, it’s usually a written form. So I’m not sure, you know, how it doesn’t really necessarily work with non-verbal. But yeah, it kind of shows these patterns and it traces of an X Y axis and it’s interesting. So you can check that out to kind of start. Thinking about that idea, but that’s only one story framework of a bunch, we’re collecting so many right now and we’re trying to map them to different moments in the innovation process, which takes me. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Sorry.

Merritt Moore.(00:24:11)我也打算说，特别是如果它在x y轴上，我们喜欢草，我们喜欢。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:24:17]是的，究竟。是的。是的。这让我回来了。喜欢，我们可以深入挖掘那一刻，在那里你试图与机器人公司一起工作，也许是那些没有立即得到它的人？你能让我们更深入那一刻吗？你是如何改变音调来帮助他们看到的？或者只是他们必须看到视频的东西之一，以便在点击时看到它对社会的影响？或者还有另一种方式能够框架它来帮助他们了解潜在价值吗？

Merritt Moore.[00:24:53]好吧，我觉得一开始，我只是难以置信的顽固。而且我想我在与公司相关联的LinkedIn上的每个人都喜欢，“嘿，嗨，嗨。又是我。”

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:25:08]Yeah, there is so much power in that, though, this podcast and the fact that you’re on it is a testament to us doing that and not being afraid to ask when you believe in something and you really need to do it and understand it.

Merritt Moore.(00:25:22)所以我认为你必须真正相信它。我真的意味着它是我想做的就是这样，我们正在锁定。我想和这个机器人合作。我想我明白了这一点。没有人能够跳舞，但我想我可以像所需要的那样，我会发生这种情况。And so I think but, you know, at first the loan was just two weeks and once the… But it started coming out then I think they were a lot more on board and I totally understand the hesitation in the beginning because I think it’s hard to describe something that’s in one’s head. And I didn’t even know what I was going to be doing, so it’s just been. Yeah, it’s been a journey, and what’s fun is it’s continuing like the artistic side is, is opening up so many doors on the artistic side and on the technological side, it’s actually kind of hard to keep up. But, yeah, it’s been lots of fun.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:26:32]这真是太棒了!你能给我们一些关于未来研究的线索吗，你将追求、追求或表演的问题，或者，你可以告诉我们你认为未来会发生什么。

Merritt Moore.[00:26:45]是啊，我很想让它更具互动性。所以现在。所以当我刚开始在哈佛大学的实验室工作时，我们使用这些虚拟现实手机，就是那种带着耳机的手机。我必须精确定位我想让机器人去的地方，这样互动更强，我在移动的时候和机器人一起工作。所以就研究而言，想要进行实验，在封锁期间进行更多的实时互动，这很困难，因为要实现这个，你需要很多传感器，你需要很多。设备和技术支援。所以我只是编排了这些舞蹈，不是实时的，但是探索，比如，把机器人放在另一个在地板上移动的机器人上，或者用手势和动作捕捉来工作，最好是在某一点上，像人工智能。所以当我在挪威的时候，我穿上动作捕捉服，开始跳舞。这些数据将被存储起来，输入机器学习算法，然后编排新的动作。把它映射到机器人上。 Amazing. So that would. Yeah, but I mean, these ongoing research stuff, it takes a while.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:28:27]哦，我相信它听起来非常复杂。它听起来很简单，因为你解释它，但我确信执行非常复杂。是的。有多乐趣。这也很多。That makes me think of all of the people who are working in robotics or in other forms of innovation that are sitting at the lab bench and just playing and experimenting and how the movements that you’re kind of calling forth are bringing their work to light in so many ways. It’s just this other in my mind, too, it’s the beauty of sort of bringing the experimental and the try and try again and the failures that come with, uh, with having to be playful as we work to make technologies better. It’s representing that in so many ways to

Merritt Moore.[00:29:20]你知道，我肯定相信肯定和试验。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:29:27]我给Merritt最喜欢的一句话是，我相信那是在伦敦《时尚》杂志采访你的时候，你有小女孩给你写信，寄给你她们戴着科学眼镜，穿着实验服，穿着芭蕾舞裙的照片。这很神奇。好吧，我想我想结束了，因为我知道你还有很多工作要做。但是你能和我们分享一些你对年轻女孩的建议吗?她们是如何看待自己的，她们的生活将会是怎样的?

Merritt Moore.[00:30:04]哦,是的。我的建议是，给自己一点时间。我觉得现在的压力太大了要立刻取得辉煌，要在一天内取得不可思议的成功。或者，如果你不是真的马上就做，那么也许那不适合你，你应该做其他的事情。我认为，对我自己来说，就像我说的，我进入一个房间，你给我一个活动。我第一次尝试的时候肯定不聪明，第二次，第三次，第四次，第五次也一样。正确的。我喜欢我在开始的时候有一个非常缓慢的平稳期，然后不知怎么的，它累积起来，然后我得到它，我明白了。但那是在几个月，几年的快乐之后，在房间里，慢慢地知道他们投入的每一个小时最终都会得到回报。只是不总是像我期望的那样。 But it will pay off. And it might be like a year from now. It might be five years from now. So I think so. I think one of the big things is to give yourself time and also. I mean, your time is precious, like also value your time so you realize when you are. Have, you know, 20 minutes, if it’s your turn to going to the phone or is it going to make you better yourself by going to a book or even just daydreaming out of the car, I think it is incredibly helpful because that’s when. Yeah. So it’s like giving yourself the space and the time. Yeah. Yeah.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:31:55]但是是啊。I mean again, it’s a beautiful image as you’re saying, that I see you in that theater and for all the sadness and all the challenges that covid has brought there, there was this time that many of us were granted to sort of carve out a new world. And you did. And I’m so grateful that you did. I know the world is grateful and I’m so thankful that you came on the podcast. What a wonderful way to spend some time together. And I’m looking forward to sharing this with my six year old and also with the larger innovation community, for sure. Thank you so much. What a wonderful time. And please tell your [unclear wording] I say hi.

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:32:37)我会。我会。我们的听众在哪里可以找到你？

Merritt Moore.(00:32:41)哦，我在Instagram, Twitter和网站物理点，然后网站是物理点，在pointe。com和LinkedIn梅里特·摩尔。是的,这就是我。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:32:59)我们会在节目笔记中链接到所有这些内容，我很快会和你们聊。

Merritt Moore.[00:33:03]是的。小心。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:33:07]感谢收听本周的节目。一定要在社交媒体上关注我们，并在对话中加入你的声音。你可以在Untold Content上乐动体育足球找到我们。