与Eric Cohen一起通过讲故事来相信你的创新

这一集发电由未能内容的创新讲故事培训供电。乐动体育足球乐动体育266在这种沉浸式和互动的故事驱动的经验中增加购买。您的团队在哪个讲故事技术的最新项目，原型和投票 - 并通过25个史诗般的创新故事的史诗例子来启发。了解更多UntoldContent.com/乐动体育266trainings/innovation-storytelling-Tringstelling.

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:00:04)欢迎来到Untold Stories of Innovation，在这里，我们放大了Untold Stories的洞察力、影响力和创新由Untold Content提供动力。乐动体育足球我是主持人，凯蒂·特鲁斯·泰勒。今天的嘉宾是Eric Cohen。他实际上是锐步泵的发明者，并帮助推出了知名品牌，如Swiffer，帮宝适，塔吉特，百事，强生和吉罗。Eric是消费者和健康技术领域公认的领导者和演讲者，在开发产品方面拥有超过30年的经验，这些产品涉及新技术，以实现高度相关的消费者体验。我迫不及待地想让你听一些Eric的创新故事。埃里克，非常感谢你上播客。

埃里克•科恩[00:00:51]嗨，凯蒂。非常感谢我的。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:00:53]我喜欢你个人的创新故事因为你一开始是机械工程师，对吧?

埃里克•科恩(00:00:59)我通过了。我是那些在房子里分开的东西的孩子之一，试图把它放回一起。它从大约五岁开始，并不总是成功，但我总是试一试。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:01:11]我喜欢那个。所以，你知道，在我们开始录制之前，我最喜欢的故事之一，我觉得我们觉得我们只是......我们必须再次讲述Reebok泵的故事。这是将事物分开的过程，将它们放回一起，从不同的角度看待事物。你介意分享你的创新故事的一部分吗？

埃里克•科恩[00:01:32]一点也不。事实上，即使是今天。和糖果，那是。哦，天哪。当我二十五岁的时候，八十八十八岁，刚刚开始作为工程师。当我听说这个项目时，关于在鞋子和鞋上工作的时候，我立即自愿成为该项目的工程师。所以这是我的第一次开始进入鞋类世界，我实际上没有先前的经历。和哇。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:02:02)回头看，你只是渴望吗？你是否只是倾向于说是和倾向的，或者有其他原因，这有点导致你的机会吗？

埃里克•科恩[00:02:12]嗯，我一直是一名运动员，我踢足球，我仍然是一名自行车运动员，竞技自行车运动员直到今天。所以运动和运动对我很重要。当我得知锐步是我的客户，他们也在看鞋子的时候，我完全投入了。我来自一个凡事皆有可能的家庭。我在很小的时候就学会了与人相关理解人们未被衡量的内在需求是生活中需要学习的一项非常重要的技能，无论是在产品开发中，还是在创新中，还是在日常生活中。我有一个例子我可以和大家分享一下我是如何开发锐步高跟鞋的。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:03:11)是的,请。

埃里克•科恩(00:03:12)这是一个有趣的故事。当时我在一家叫Design Continuum的公司，他们至今仍然活跃着，我从大三开始就在那里工作。这家公司的老板正在为他的新办公室申请建筑许可证，这花了他好几个月的时间。我对杰瑞说:“让我看看能不能帮你弄到建筑许可证。”所以我打电话给波士顿市政厅。我找到了发放建筑许可证的人。我和他们的行政助理谈过了，我说，嘿，玛丽，我是乔。我在现场。我要和鲍勃谈谈。她说，等一下，我去拿。 So I get Bob on the phone immediately. I handed the phone to Jerry in the matter of two or three days, he had his building permit. So I only tell that story because when you’re developing a product and you’re trying to be innovative, you have to be scrappy and resourceful. Not everything is handed to you. So being scrappy and resourceful is almost a prerequisite. And that’s how we develop the pump. And I’ll explain more if you’d like.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:04:36]是的。而且我喜欢这个故事，我想我们可能会称这是一个明显的故事，因为你通过该战略讲述了未来的存在。这不像你称之为陷入困境。我认为这也是一个方面，这真的是为了在创新方面灌输这种文化价值。是的，陷入困扰，也看到了世界，继续前进并声称世界的未来状态，也许甚至可能会通过，这实际上会帮助它更快地实现速度。

埃里克•科恩[00:05:13]完全正确。这是我们的。它就在那里等着我们去宣称。正确的。我们不需要依靠别人来占领一个空间，开辟一个空间或设计一个产品，这是我们的能力。所以当我们开始设计锐步高跟鞋的时候，实际上凯蒂开始研究跑鞋看看我们是否能让人们跑得更快。当我们做了大量的物理和工程研究来研究我们可以在鞋底上放些什么，事实上，我想我们可能是第一批把碳纤维放进跑鞋里的人之一。这是在1988年，我们认为这还不够，这还不够科技，这还不足以向耐克展示锐步可以成为一家科技公司。这就是这个系列的由来，锐步创始人保罗·法尔曼和耐克创始人菲尔·奈特之间的竞争。保罗想要证明，是的，锐步也可以成为一家科技公司。 So we moved from running shoes into basketball shoes. So that’s that’s the genesis of it, and then we started to look at what makes a good basketball shoe, can we get people to jump higher? Can we get people to land safer? Can we get people to cut harder? What is it about basketball that’s going to give us a competitive advantage and demonstrate sort of a technological superiority, which was an underlying unspoken theme or or mission for the project.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:07:08]难以置信的所以这有很多不同的层次，很明显，围绕着用例的技术方面，以及关于品牌冲突和竞争的更大叙述。那么是什么导致了实际的，再一次，在今天的设计思维语言中，从那个用例开始并深入了解谁会穿这个以及为什么它会让他们的生活更好?这对于人们来说是非常舒服的，对于今天的创新者来说是非常舒服的。在这个项目进行的时候是什么时候建立的?

埃里克•科恩[00:07:52]我们不知道如何在篮球鞋仿造它比别的更好。所以我们必须再次开始思考不同的假设。它跳得更高，还是更加安全地降落？它削减了更难吗？我们怎么能做那些东西？他们对人们甚至有意义吗？所以我们第一次看着的事情是，男孩，如果我们能让人们跳得更高，那就不会太好？所以那么我们看看平均篮球运动员。当然，你的野心很高。你说，我想要这个鞋子。 I want to see this shoe on some of the greatest basketball players in the world. Right. You shoot really high and those guys are ginormous. They’re six eleventh and they weigh two hundred and fifty pounds or more. And you say, is there really any tech short of explosives that I can put in the bottom of the basketball shoe that’s really going to launch this ginormous person higher up to the basket? Sadly not. Right. So then we thought, OK, they get up in the air very high. You’ve seen these dunk contests. Everyone has seen basketball. They get up there pretty high and they land really hard. So let’s focus on giving them the best support we possibly can and then we start to turn towards how can we give them support? And we started to think, OK, what’s readily available, what’s free, what doesn’t weigh very much and what can you get while you’re still on the court and you start to think, think, think, think. Oh my gosh. I can do all those things. So the next thing I always advise and it’s something I learned on this project and it stuck with me for the last thirty years, is as quickly as you possibly can build something and try it. So literally we took some blood pressure cuffs are amazing. I went to a local CBS or medical supply store and I bought a dozen blood pressure cuffs and I was very good with duct tape and hot glue and I glued them into some Reebok high top basketball sneakers and I started to get a feel for them myself. And walking around in the office, standing on tables, having other people feel my feet. You say you say, you know what I think? I think there’s something here. But Katie, if you saw me, I’m definitely not a basketball player. I’m less than six feet. So we need someone else who plays basketball to see if we’re really on to something. So the head of marketing had a friend who was the basketball coach at a local high school basketball team. So I worked with a phenomenal model maker, Beth Sullivan, and she and I mocked up or created 15 of these, I need more Colma prototype because it was really Rube Goldberg, hot glue, duct tape, blood pressure cuffs and sneakers, brought them to the local high school. And the first thing we did, we kept the shoes in a big duffel bag and said, hey, guys, come on over. We’re going to show you this new thing we’re working on for Reebok. Can we show you? They come over and every single one of them. One hundred percent. We’re wearing Nike. So we before we show them the shoes, we say, here’s the idea. It’s an inflatable shoe. It inflates. You can do it on the court. It gives you all the support. And you should have seen the eye rolling and the snickers and the giggles and we said, OK, OK, wait till you see them. So we unzip the bag and of course they see what they see are their monstrosities right there. They’re hideous five year old style shoes with blood pressure cuffs duct taped inside. And of course, they’re giggling even more. And we say, OK, guys, just humor us, put them on and go about your your your scrimmage and your practice. So one of the things we noticed is other than the pieces and parts flying off that we had to re-glue and duct tape was they started to get used to them and forget that they have them on. And Beth and I looked at each other and said, oh, that’s interesting. No one’s taking them off. They’re able to forget about them and they’re going about their business. After about a half an hour, we called them back in and we said, OK, take them off and put your old shoes back on. Thanks so much for Chinese for half an hour. Go back and finish your scrimmage. And what we could see was the 90s that they had worn before these prototypes. They fit perfectly fine. And once they got their old Nike’s back on after the pump. You could see them all replacing them a little bit tighter and fussing with their laces a little bit more, so when we first describe the concept, they thought it was foolish when they started to try it. They started to forget about it. When they put their old shoes back on, they realized that maybe there’s something here. I didn’t have to fiddle with those other shoes. Now, my shoes that I thought were the best. Maybe they don’t feel quite right. So right after all, once I’ve tried something better. So in the last bit, we called them back in and said, OK, guys, you’ve tried them, you’ve seen them. What do you think? And Katie, one kid said one thing that really stood out. And what he said was these make me feel like I can play harder. And that was the quote again, this is thirty two years ago. Yeah, that quote has stuck in my head ever since then and has sort of given me insight into when we develop products. We’re not just developing them for functional need. We’re developing them for a very deep emotional need. Yes. And he was sort of the inspiration for that. So when we went back to Paul Fireman and said, hey, where are you guys in the process of testing go? What do we need to do? I said to Paul, Paul, we built some prototypes. They look like this. We tried them with the high school basketball team and one kid on the team said, these make me feel like I can play harder. And, you know, Paul said what? He said, that’s all I need to hear. Game on. He said, you tell me what you need, you develop that shoot. I will give you every resource within our company that you need to get that done. And I want to buy the super show in November of next year, which was 1989. Wow. And that became you would have thought we were looking for the cure to cancer. We were on this mission to develop this inflatable shoe that would make basketball players feel like they can play harder. Yeah.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:16:02]哇。这是令人难以置信的。我正在考虑故事的开始，开始对你的创新挑战的开始。正确的。我们有竞争品牌。我们有希望在技术方面分离和超越竞争对手。然后我们有这种其他类型的更多。听起来在开始故事情节更专注于游戏的功能方面。因此，支持或跳得更高等的能力，在它结束时，实际上引发了真正的想法的真正冠军，并倾向于在消费者水平上的这种感觉。

埃里克•科恩[00:16:45]是的，更重要的是，你知道，这是一个我们在这一点上都知道和过度使用的术语。这都是关于消费者的经验。正确的。并在1988年的当天后，没有必要同样的设计思维甚至是一个术语。正确的。我们仍然回来，甚至在顾客的语音之前，我真的不在乎。但是，在每个人都有这种共同的理解之前，这是一种产品不是关于功能的。他们如果我使用Klayton Christiansen的词汇，他们是关于职能和情绪水平的工作。我们现在都知道。但我们并不真正知道那么我就像一支球队一样。 We were on the forefront of understanding sort of the intersection between the human experience and technology. And now it’s like it’s motherhood and apple pie. Back then, it wasn’t really right. It was a set of rules.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:18:06]我从来没有听过任何人以前使用那个比喻。

埃里克•科恩[00:18:09]母亲和苹果馅饼。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:18:10)是的，我从未听说过。

埃里克•科恩(00:18:12)这是有趣的。但也许也许我只是在显示我的年龄。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:18:16]不，不，不，没事。不，这很有趣。我认为这是很多创新者都在挣扎的事情，特别是现在一切都围绕着用户体验，性和用户体验，消费者体验。我们如何从所有的故事中，所有的消费者洞察，所有的噪音，所有的反馈中，找到一个短语，一个见解，或者通过它们的集合最终塑造并推动某件事向前发展?你知道，我很想知道。也许这是个实际问题。也许这是一个需要数十年经验才能得到的完整、深刻的艺术和微妙的答案。但你只有25岁，你听说并知道这是值得关注的故事情节。我认为很多创新者都在努力破解不同的故事。

埃里克•科恩[00:19:18]是的。我喜欢这个问题。我想我经常被问到这个问题，所以我指导和支持哈佛创新实验室的创始人。这是一个很棒的项目，我之前跟很多创业者讲过这个故事。他们经常问这个问题，你怎么知道你怎么知道一个孩子的回答会如此重要?保罗·费尔曼怎么知道他只需要听到这些?正确的。正确的。所以我的立场是在创新的过程中，有两个重要的部分。一个是过程。 Everyone knows everyone has a process for innovation. Right. There’s a consumer journey and there’s all these steps and processes. And then there’s people who are on this journey or in this process, and I tend to prioritize people over process. And what I mean by that is you can have a fantastic process, but unless you have people in that process who are insightful and observant and know how to poke deeper than others, you’re not going to hit those sort of industry changing, market changing revolutionary product ideas. And let me… I’ll give you an example. And it’s always about probing deeper and deeper and deeper. I was involved with a project for the Pampers brand. They were number two to Huggies. And, of course, they want to become number one. So that was the mission. How do we get Pampers back to the number one position in the market and in the research we did? What you learn is that diapers have reached technical parity, meaning diapers hold the stuff they’re supposed to hold babies and and they all do it well. Yeah, right. So functionally, they’re equivalent. But what’s different and one of the things we learned was moms tend to when they go to groups with other moms and their babies, whether it’s a music group or or playgroup or gymnastics kind of thing, when their kids are in diapers, moms compare kids. Right. So then you start to probe a little deeper and you say, why do you compare kids? Well, I want my baby to be the cutest baby in the lot. And one of the things we found was that one of the points of comparison was a baby’s bottom who has a cuter bottom. My everyone wants to believe that their baby has the cutest bottom. Right. Goodness. Whatever the metric is that you define the cute bottom, I’ll leave up to you. But… and at the time, Pampers have this history, they called it the model, which was it would hope it was so good at what it did, it would actually hold too much baby stuff and and sack a bit. Right. So the solution we came up with couldn’t so much be a technical solution because it was a little bit like the Model T Ford. You can have it in any color you want as long as it’s black because they’re manufacturing lines were set up to make black cars. Pampers has 80 manufacturing lines across the world. It’s not easy to create a new diaper any time soon. So we came up with a design esthetic and a new brand called It Fits and it works. And it was all about baby stages of development. And we did two things. One is we rebranded. The second solution was using graphics and design to make the baby’s diaper look trimmer and slimmer, and those two changes actually brought Pampers from the number two position to the number one position.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:23:42]令人着迷。

埃里克•科恩(00:23:43)这只是因为我们挖掘更深层次，更深入地了解在这种情况下，在这种情况下，妈妈的喉咙层面是人们不想承认的喉咙。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:24:01)正确的。是的,没错。是的。不要害怕问为什么。

埃里克•科恩(00:24:06)继续询问为什么。非常正确。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:24:09)你知道，在我们正在考虑这个时，这真的是一种技能和才华，如果你愿意，也许是创新者的艺术形式，不仅能够观察到你描述的方式。并且显然有很多工具就可以帮助人们更好地观察和感知和拉动洞察力而存在。但是，还有那个第二层，第二层或技能层，这是拍摄那些观察和洞察并能够缩小它们，然后故事讲述者传达你观察到的东西以及你所感知的东西。你能分享一些......它不必具体。我不想在这里扔公共汽车下的任何球队。但是，当这种情况下没有发生，很好，当故事和洞察力无法有效地蒸馏和沟通时，你认为这是什么？

埃里克•科恩[00:25:09]哦，是的，我已经看到了很多。所以我们看到我们的业务很多，我多年来多次看到了这么多的例子。所以如果我有点燕尾，你知道，我们知道，我们知道，这位年轻的球员说，“这让我觉得我觉得我能越来越努力。”这是坐在游戏团周围的女人，他们最终承认他们最感兴趣的是对比较婴儿底部的兴趣，他们可以说这是最多的。我几乎将它等同于一点，就像一个站立漫画。对吧?他们让你思考我们所知道的事情我们在私密地思考但害怕大声说出。所以当他们讲一个梦幻般的笑话时，我们通常是一个笑话，我们都思考很有趣，我们都思考它，但我们从未说过它。如果讲故事也是如此，那你要如何讲一个贴近观众内心的故事，让他们忍不住去注意呢?而且，你知道，这不仅仅是为了讲故事、拍电影或围坐在篝火旁。它是为那些试图传达他们在做什么或者为什么他们在做什么是相关的，是新业务的形式的创新者们准备的。对吧?So when you’re pitching to some voices or you’re the you’re the packaging innovation group at a Fortune 50 company and you’re in the innovation group trying to sell it to one of the brands, you need to have that sort of consumer led guttural poll where the brand manager who is responsible for profit and loss of of selling product to consumers says, oh, my gosh. Like, I can’t that I totally get it and that that resonates with me and I know it resonates with consumers, what I have seen more often in the past is technologists who think they have the greatest idea and they’ll present to these brand managers how fantastic this technology is without telling the story of why any consumer is actually going to care. And I see that as a common problem and a common frustration among innovation departments who need to fill the pipeline for the brands with new products and services.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:28:12]是的，是的，是的。它太令人着迷。我想挖掘这几天，我在这一点上完成了一百人面试，与全球创新领导者一样，我被那个经历所淹没和谦卑。而这在几乎所有需要同情，情感共鸣，而是非常清楚的对齐也是如此明确的对齐，以及你想要与众不同的观众。他们的想法是什么，他们需要知道冠军的决定是什么。和lately, Eric, I’ve been interested in knowing what systems are in place for empowering innovators to do that effectively and for managers to ensure that their teams aren’t shelving great ideas because they were not communicated well, because I think we’ve identified at this point among our team so many drivers of innovation, storytelling and strategies and ways to do it well and really amazing examples. And now I’m very curious about the systems. How are these insights getting collected, organized, pulled? How are and that goes for consumer insights, of course. And I know there are certain platforms to support that, but also for internal culture, building and storytelling around. Here’s a process and here’s where we pivoted and why. And here’s the institutional history of failure or whatever. Like what are the systems and processes that you’ve seen across different groups for supporting this kind of story collection and learning?

埃里克•科恩[00:29:50]Oh, gosh, I can give you one example of something that we are doing, so if I can quickly just mention so I’m currently working at a company called Cambridge Consultants, and it’s quite a large and prestigious technology development company and where we’re creating some of the the world’s most sort of amazing first market products. And it’s a company primarily of technologists and developers. It’s engineers, it’s scientists, it’s chemists, biologists, physicists, computer scientists. Right? It’s very technology centric. And they recently created a 5G antenna that is attached to a glider flying 12 miles above the surface of the earth in the layer called the stratosphere, giving five Gs service to two areas of the world that you can’t put up towers. They’ve created robots that drive on farms to pick fruits when they’re perfectly ripe. They created the sensor in the most recent home covid test that gives it the ninety five percent accuracy. And they create technology to personalize the consumer experience in the beauty category. So it’s very science driven and you can imagine some of the presentations you might see within our own company, right? Sure. Either internally or to clients. So one of the things we do is we partner technologists with people who might be more commercially focused or commercially aware like me. So I work with technology teams across Cambridge consultants when they want to tell a story. And I help them craft that story because it’s not necessarily in their DNA like it is in my DNA or your DNA. I can’t do what they do. I’m not going to design 5, 10, or 12 miles above the earth. Right? And their skill set might not entirely be storytelling. So the way we’re managing it internally at Cambridge Consultants is… we partner. So we partner with people like me to help them tell the story. And I have seen companies do the same within their own company. I know that you give training, right? Yes. And I love the notion of what you’re doing. And我可以看到公司需要能够更好地讲述故事。这不仅仅是留给品牌和营销团队的。对吧?每个人都需要能够讲述一个故事来销售一个想法。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:33:05)是的,没错。特别是当这种商业和技术合作可能不是商业模式的一部分或结构上可行的时候。而且，我认为，这很有道理。我认为这是一个非常聪明的组织战略，为技术团队削减并提供这些资源，同时也为那些能够进行协作的团队提供资源。我想其中一个目标就是让它在两方面都发挥作用让它随着时间的推移成为一种可指导的经验。我们对这个很感兴趣。这就是为什么我要用系统部分的细节来烦你。但我很感激你这么说。

埃里克•科恩[00:33:50]不，你说你希望它能被擦掉，我会说什么。我绝对看到过这种情况。而现在至少有一种理解，技术人员需要能够讲故事。这本身就是一个里程碑。是的。你知道，一开始他们是搭档，他们有导师帮助他们讲述故事。下一次他们要做的时候，他们将更接近能够讲一个故事，拥有将会构成这个故事的所有细节，这意味着像我这样的人，我们的参与和时间开始减少，因为他们开始他们开始建立他们的专业知识和讲故事，对于一些团队来说，我现在只是快速地看一下，在它被公之于众之前。完全正确。是的。 It’s fantastic to watch.

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:34:50]是的，因为有策略和启发式做得很好。

埃里克•科恩(00:34:56)这些都是聪明人，没错，聪明，他们能学习，他们能比我学得更好。一旦他们明白一个好故事听起来是什么样子的，它是如何引起共鸣的，这绝对是一个可训练、可教的时刻。看到这些技能的增长对我来说是有益的，因为我们都知道它的重要性。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:35:26)埃里克，有些东西我们试图用我们的团队中的这里带着针。而且我被告知，这是如何在技术和创新工作中有效地沟通和讲故事的能力是什么关系？在创新者方面，在其生产力方面，他们的参与，他们的创新动机有什么影响，因此，当然，那些驱动加速创新流程的东西？所以我很奇怪听到你对你所看到的人是否赋予这种方式。它似乎对他们的动机和生产力或参与有形吗？

埃里克•科恩(00:36:06)从创新者的角度来看，无论你是工程师、产品开发人员、设计人员还是科学家，没有什么比向市场推出一款产品更特别的了，有时是实实在在地推出产品。对吧?我们研究过卫星上的东西。正确的。或者我们有产品发布意味着它在亚马逊网站上或者在塔吉特或沃尔玛。对吧?但对我们大多数人来说，没有比这更让人兴奋的事了。技术人员越来越清楚的是:他们需要既是技术人员又是销售人员。正确的。我不想这么说，但那是工作的一部分。 Right? And your fantastic invention or idea or technology, you need to help usher it through this long process of going from a sketch on the back of a napkin to something that someone will pay with a credit card for in the stores or through them through a purchase order. And you can help that journey impact that journey. So, again, the biggest thrill is to see something go to market and storytelling and helping that idea find its way to commercialization is something that we can impact. And我们都有一部分东西可以很早就夭折，过早地夭折，因为我们没有一个好的故事。Symfer是真正产品的一个完美的例子。产品几乎从未看到过商店货架。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:37:59)不，请讲那个故事。我很想听。

埃里克•科恩(00:38:02)所以当我们在开发Swiffer的时候那是来自一个非常公开的简报。宝洁公司说:“我们想彻底改造地板清洁业务。”对吧?现在，我们卖(不清楚的措辞)，我们倒进一个桶里，他们擦地板，这就是宝洁做的，我们卖那个或那个清洁方案。我们想要彻底改造这个类别。所以在我们所做的研究中，我们观察了人们是如何打扫的，为什么要打扫，打扫什么对他们来说是重要的，你会学到一些东西，比如厨房地板，厨房地板的清洁程度是你自己的反映。所以在你请人来之前，例如，你想要厨房地板干净，这很重要，在你请人来之前。你真的想要处理拖把、水、水桶、溢出物和清洁吗?不,你没有。正确的。 So after some very good research, we said, “OK, we really understand what the jobs to be done are from a functional level and an emotional level. I need to be able to clean the floor. Seems obvious. I need to stay clean while I’m doing it and it needs to be quick. Right?” So that was the first result from sort of an intensive research phase. I know it sounds simple and simplistic, but to your point, it could have been 20 other bullet points. But we knew that those were the three that were important and those started to drive the concepts it needs to be able to clean the floor because it’s a reflection of you. We need to be able to to clean the floor without getting dirty. That’s important. And it needs to be quick and easy. Right? So we came up with the concept of a diaper wipe on a stick for anyone that has children. You know, that might be why this it’s a nonmoving, slightly moist towelette that used to wipe the baby picture of that on the end of a stick and a pad. And you have Swiffer, right? Yeah. So I said, “great idea. Thanks very much. We’re going to do some market testing.” And they did their market testing, which was just describing the concept with illustrations. Right? So just as we tested the Reebok pump in this high school, when we first told the high schoolers about the idea and they laughed and giggled before they tried it, P&G got the same response. Hmm. So P&G got the response, a negative response, saying, “oh, this is not environmentally friendly. I don’t like the concept because I don’t like throwing something away.” Meanwhile, we know that people use disposable diapers, they use disposable napkins, they use disposable paper towels. Right? So … and they’re fine with dumping six gallons of dirty water down the sink. But they’re reacting negatively to this. This one might be… So P&G took that as a negative test and they said, “thanks very much. We tested the concept. It doesn’t meet our requirements. Thanks very much. It’s a no go.” And we said, “that can’t be.” We said, “we’ve done the research, we understand these consumers, we think it was a faulty test, you need to let people try it and see what it’s like and let them experience how simple it is, how fast it is, how they get to clean when they want to clean.” So begrudgingly, P&G said, “OK, make up some mockups, bring them back to Cincinnati. We’ll rerun these tests doing what I call experiential testing. Right? Let them experience it.” Yeah. They ran through those tests and the results were one hundred and eighty degrees different than the concept of tests.

Katie Trauth Taylor.很神奇的。

埃里克•科恩如果我们没有这些故事，没有对什么对消费者来说是重要的深刻理解，Swiffer永远也不会出现。

Katie Trauth Taylor.嗯。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:42:36)是的,没错。这是一种结合，理解故事情节。还有你在我们谈话开始时所说的，我尽快拿到MVP，让人们触摸它，感受它，做出反应。只要这与故事情节相符，那么到了那个时候，如果它仍然如果没有合适的机会，那么也许是时候搁置了。但是这是难以置信的。那一定是非常激动人心的经历。也表现出毅力，一定要这样来来回回。

埃里克•科恩[00:43:11］再次，看看Reebok有一个亿美元十亿美元类别。Swiffer是最大的消费产品在P＆G历史中发布。是的，排序的初步发布。你知道，这些都很重要，大赌注。而且他们都是基于对人类的一些非常简单，基本的理解。是的，真的，真的，它归结为什么。和当技术学家正试图销售他们的想法时，你必须记住你在讲述你的想法的人是另一个人。人类与人类有关的是社会生物，对吗？他们有情感和感情。他们深深地关心事情。即使您正在谈论技术，如果您可以在那个人的水平谐波或相关，即使是有影响力，也将使您的想法变得如此。往往不是，这是真的。请伸出连接并连接，特别是如果您是一个启动，或者如果您在大公司内有启动功能，或者您在大公司中的创新功能。这些是我喜欢谈论和爱支持的东西。所以我总是愿意帮助任何人，想要倾听的人。我愿意聊天。

Katie Trauth Taylor.(00:44:56)埃里克，我很感激我们一起度过的时间。这是一个完全包装的播客剧集，就洞察力和外卖。而且我真的很感激我们在一起的时间。

埃里克•科恩(00:45:09)我很高兴，非常感谢你，凯蒂，让我。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:45:12]非常感谢你，埃里克。不能等到我们可以再次谈谈。谢谢你在播客上。

埃里克•科恩[00:45:17]谢谢你,凯蒂。

Katie Trauth Taylor.[00:45:19]感谢您在本周的剧集中听。请务必在社交媒体上关注我们，并将您的声音添加到谈话中。您可以在未销售内容中找到我们。乐动体育足球